What the FUCK is wrong with Minnesotans?

[janradder]

As I was driving today, I passed a minivan stuck on a curb. The front axle was snapped so the front driver's side wheel hung askew. The driver sat in the vehicle withe the engine running. He had been struck by another can that had fled the scene of the accident. I knew this because of the debris scattered in the intersection. Amongst pieces of metal and plastic lay a license plate which did not belong to the minivan (it had both plates still firmly attached). People in cars drove by the minivan giving it and the driver disapproving looks.

I pulled over to the side of the road and called 911 to report the accident in case no on else had. As a matter of fact, even though it appeared that the accident had occurred at least several minutes earlier, I was the first to call.

This is not unusual for Minnesotans, ignoring someone in need. Two summers ago, I lost control of my bike and slid about fifty feet across asphalt and rocks before being stopped by a train track. No one had been around to see the accident but a few moments later, after I had pulled myself up to a sitting position next to my bike which now lay in two pieces, several cyclists came riding past. They gave me funny disapproving looks as I sat on the gravel, blood streaming down my arms and leg. They didn't stop, though, just glared and pedaled on. Nor did anyone stop or ask if I needed help or even slow down as I fixed my bike on the side of the path. They just rode by and stared. Last year, when I was held up in front of my house, it was the same. As the mugger pointed his gun at my head, at least three cars drove by, their headlights actually lighting us up as they went past. Did they maybe try to call 911, though? No, in fact they didn't.

And this type of behavior isn't just reserved for crisis. Whenever my car has gotten stuck in the snow, I've gotten it out all by myself because the people walking by would rather glare at me as if I were walking around in my underwear slapping myself in the head with a dead fish. When I've carried armfuls of packages into the post office, the only time anyone has ever opened the door for me was when that person was already at the door and they've usually held it for me with a begrudging expression on their face. If They've already walked past the door or are a few steps away from it, they've invariably given me a dirty bewildered look like, "What th hell are you doing with those boxes?" And only once in the fifteen years I've lived here has someone offered to help me carry those packages.

There is something deeply wrong about Minnesotans in their refusal to recognize anyone else or reach out to them or offer any help or assistance. They insist on remaining insular, isolated from anyone they don't personally know. It's as if a common connection to humanity is missing or else it's taught out of them in childhood -- take care of yourself, and let others do the same. I find this quality profoundly disturbing and very unsettling. Minnesotans love to brag about themselves, pointing out how they made the top five list in education or health or livability. There are endless news stories about Minnesotans in the Olympics or Hollywood or business, ignoring everyone else who might also be involved in those things because they aren't Minnesotan. This fall, when the American League MVP award was announced, there were two sentences that mentioned the winner. The rest of the article -- a quarter of a page -- was devoted to the two Minnesota Twins who didn't win.

Minnesotans delight in the Garrison Keillor sign-off for his "News from Lake Wobegon" in which he describes the people of this state: "Where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average." They should add an addendum -- "And where no one gives a fuck about anyone but themselves and their own."

Comments

[sdn.livejournal.com]

do you think this is endemic to MN or is it throughout the country?

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Being from the Northeast and having travelled a bit around the country, I think this is endemic to MN. There are always people who won't stop for someone or offer help but it seems that it is the norm here. There's a term called "Minnesota Nice" which isn't so much about being nice. It's more about giving this front of false-niceness as a means to keep people at a distance so they don't get too close. The feeling seems to be, "If I don't know you already, I don't want to know you," and that attitude extends to helping people -- don't give anymore of your self than is absolutely necessary. There are lots of things I like about Minnesota but this is not one of them.

[joelarnold.livejournal.com]

Having grown up in Minnesota, I never noticed this until I spent a couple years living in Montana. While out there, it struck me that Montanans were so nice and considerate and warm. Then I moved back here, and the type of things you described in your post really stuck out.

[susansugarspun.livejournal.com]

Ha! I was going to ask if this was the other side of "Minnesota nice". Since moving to New York, I've been struck by how intrusive people seem to be just in basic conversation--near-strangers have asked me these bizarrely personal questions, and absolutely everyone wants to discuss my morning commute and why I should look at different routes. But intrusiveness is one aspect of being interested, right? When I fell down on the sidewalk and landed in a puddle last week, three or four different people stopped to ask if I was okay and help me back up.

The first month I was living in Brooklyn, I saw a bicyclist get clipped by a car at a busy intersection, and two bars and a restaurant practically emptied out as people ran out to check on the cyclist and take cell-phone pictures of the car as it drove away. (The cyclist, as it turned out, got really irritated by all the questions about whether or not he was okay, and when people started offering themselves as witnesses if he wanted to make a police complaint, he started shouting at everyone to leave him alone. It felt like an oddly characteristic New York experience.)

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Whenever I visit family I'm always shocked when I'm reminded of how much warmer people are in other parts of the country. Most of the time I really enjoy living here but this aspect of Minnesota culture is really off-putting.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

New Yorkers get a lot of shit for being obnoxious but they really do care about other people. I remember asking someone for directions on the bus in NYC and everyone around chimed in with their opinion of the best way to get there. Similarly, I remember waiting for a light to change on 14th St. when an elderly man fell. Immediately about ten people surrounded him, helped him back up and a few more ran to a pay phone to call an ambulance because the guy had scraped his face up pretty bad. I just don't see anything like that ever happening in Minneapolis. People would just gawk and walk on by or go back to their business.

[rsheslin.livejournal.com]

WTF? I mean, seriously. I don't comprehend not valuing basic, common courtesy. Maybe their brains got froze.

You realize this post will make Dave be mean to me for weeks?

[haddayr.livejournal.com]

Oh, you're mad today. Don't you remember those guys who came and helped me push my car when I was preggers and stuck in a snowbank?

Granted, that was the exception to the rule, but it happened.

Eh, they were probably from Detroit.

[snurri.livejournal.com]

I know you're upset, but you're painting with an EXTREMELY broad brush here. This has never been my experience of living here.

[geniusofevil.livejournal.com]

Dude, I'm inclined to think that everyone up there is an escaped con who can't risk the exposure of stranger contact.

[jocelina.livejournal.com]

It pains me to admit it, but this is often true. We're polite people, but we're not very warm.

I think some of it may be not indifference but diffidence. I know I sometimes find myself wondering, when I see a stranger slip on the ice, "Does that person need help, or would I embarrass or irritate her by needlessly calling attention to the fact that she's just tripped and fallen?"

Not saying it's right, just that I can see where people might be coming from sometimes. Not when there's blood, or a car accident, or a gun involved, though -- those are times when the only decent thing to do is to get involved.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

There could certainly be a case made for that today (-28 windchill at noon). Sadly, I see the same behavior in the spring, summer and fall.

Re: You realize this post will make Dave be mean to me for weeks?

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Granted, that was the exception to the rule

That's the problem.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

I know not all Minnesotans act like this but those who don't are the exception rather than the norm. I've lived here for fifteen years now and it's always been my experience. The vast majority of people in the rest of the country just don't behave like this.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Sadly, though, at least in my experience, people just don't around here (get involved even when there's blood, car accidents or guns). I get the not wanting to intrude on people part but there's times when becoming involved isn't intruding at all but simply helping or, at the very least, just having human contact. It's one of the things about Minnesotans that really bothers me. And, in general, I really do like this state and it's people.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

I wonder if it comes from pioneer days -- if they can't make it on their own, let 'em fail and weed out the weaklings from the herd.

[snurri.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see. Your experience is truth, whereas mine is anomaly. Good to know!

[janradder.livejournal.com]

All I'm saying is that you're seeing Minnesota from the point of view of a life-long Minnesotan which I think colors your impression. If this is what you've known you're not going to see it as anything but normal.

[snurri.livejournal.com]

And I'm saying that I've had plenty of experiences in which Minnesotans offered help or expressed concern which counter your claims. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences here. But your "evidence" is all purely anecdotal, and you use it to claim that this place is worse than Everywhere Else. I don't believe that you have lived Everywhere Else, or that Minnesotans are any more or less flawed than people Everywhere Else. You speak in generalities, and this is never useful.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, Dave, but I am not speaking in generalities. I am speaking in specifics. That's why I listed actual incidents I personally witnessed where Minnesotans have chosen not to help people in need. That's what specifics are. And yes, it is anecdotal. That's what evidence usually is, especially when talking about people's behaviors.

I also do not claim to have lived Everywhere Else. But I have lived other places and I have travelled to a lot of different parts of the country and I can safely say that the way a good number of Minnesotans behave towards strangers in need -- whether it be something serious like an accident or something as small as holding a door open -- is not how the rest of the country behaves. And I think the two other native Minnesotans who commented would back me up (and have with their comments).

[http://users.livejournal.com/_stranger_here/]

That's really interesting to think about. I wouldn't have thought to frame it in terms of missing a human connection, but I've noticed other aspects of the hands-off attitude in this part of the country (not that WI is exactly like MN) that feel unfriendly to me, though I do enjoy some flip sides of people being essentially self-contained.

It reminds me of my experience of living in Sweden: one of the first things I discovered was that I could walk down the street and strange men would never hit on me or shout obnoxious things out of their car windows. Which was wonderful. And the flip side of that was that strangers would never meet my eyes or respond if I smiled at them and said hello as we passed one another on the street. Which made me feel oddly isolated and lonely.

I've heard related complaints about coldness/unfriendliness from people who moved from the west coast to the east, but also east coast to west. I suspect that every place has its own range of personal closenesses and distances that the people who grow up in it get used to. It's tough when it doesn't match with your own natural rhythms.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

That's interesting what you say about living in Sweden because a lot of the Minnesota culture is very influenced by Scandinavian norms. One of the things another commenter said about New York was that the flip side to the intrusiveness of New Yorkers was that they seemed to be genuinely interested in other people.

I really do understand the need to distance one's self from other people and maintain boundaries through social etiquette. Though that aspect of Minnesotans bothered me when I first moved here, I've gotten used to it and accepted that as one of their quirks. But it still bothers me when that is extended to refusing to expose one's self to others by helping people out.

Minnesotans can be great when it comes to helping out groups of people like when a flood or a tornado hits some town. But I think that's because it doesn't require a personal connection to the people they're helping. For whatever reason, when it comes to that one-on-one interaction, they just can't break away from their usual routine.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_stranger_here/]

Yeah, that makes sense and jibes with much of my experience around here. There's a discomfort with certain kinds of interaction, like it could be too intimate and they'd feel awkward, so they just pretend not to notice.

Though I have to say, a lot of people around here probably think I'm the cold one because it never occurs to me to stand around and chat during a brief social interaction with people I barely know. It's the New Englander in me; I want to say my piece and get out, and that feels like the proper way to be friendly. But these folks can keep the small talk going for an hour.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can be like that, too. I don't know if it's the New Englander in me or my extreme introversion or a little of both. But, yeah, a lot of small talk with strangers can be hard for me.

[snurri.livejournal.com]

I give up. You've clearly made up your mind and I don't see a point in continuing this argument. If you'd just titled your post "I Hate Minnesotans," though, I'd be having less trouble with it.

[barthanderson.livejournal.com]

I'm jumping in late to the fun. Like always!

I hear what you're saying, and I certainly had my share of pissing and moaning about Minnesotans back when I moved here the first time in '88 (I think there's a vast differenc ebetween MN and WI, actually).

But I gotta say that what you're describing? I've seen elsewhere, many places. I have seen it in Brooklyn -- a dude walking bloody-faced down the street and no one (me included) said boo to him. Texans would not listen to me when I said their state was unfriendly, even vicious to outsiders like me, and don't get me started on Southern hospitality. Or California mellow. I think you'll find this insularity and zenophobia all over because it's American. Immigration laws? Columbine? McCain's and Palin's rallies? Your own experience in high school, J?

The instances of generosity and altruism are the anomilies. The Fear of Strangers is national, man.

[janradder.livejournal.com]

Well, welcome to the crap party!

If I sound a little terse, please excuse me. I'm feeling a little burned on this topic.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not talking about insularity (on a cultural level) or xenophobia or that Minnesotans are unfriendly. They are what they are and I accept that. I'm also not trying to say that ignoring strangers in need never happens in other parts of the country. I've seen that happen, myself. But the difference, in my opinion, is the frequency with which it happens here. And I don't think it's generosity or altruism, either. Taking a few steps to open a door for someone who's arms are filled with boxes really isn't all that generous or altruistic to me. It's just common courtesy. And I don't think it would have been generous or altruistic of the twenty or so people who passed me on the bike path while I was bleeding and struggling to fix a flat to at least slow down and ask if I was alright. And there's lots of other instances as well. The Fear of Strangers may be national but I'm always shocked when I go back East or visit my dad in the South and people seem to be a lot more ready to take a couple seconds to help someone out or at least check if they need help.